There was a circut in Australia that had two consecutive CO's DF'd while they were serving in around 1995/6 ish.
Max Divergent
JoinedPosts by Max Divergent
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SURVEY *Question RE: Disfellowshipping *
by zev inhave any of you here, either by word of mouth or personal experience, heard of entire congregations being disfellowshipped, or nearly entire congregations, like say 50% or more?
thank you for your support in this all important survey .
from apostate central, ri .
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Ever lie on your service reports?
by The_Bad_Seed in*laughing just thinking about it*.
did anybody out there lie on their service reports that they maintained the 'national average' when in reality you got .005 hours of service in any given month?
i magically always used to always get "10" hours out in service, while nobody ever saw me at the groups, no one ever caught on, or seemed not to -- maybe they just didn't give a shit.. i always lied so i could keep my microphone 'privelidges' -- that being, the privelidge to walk around at the back of the hall giving my deflated ass a break from those awful chairs they had.
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Max Divergent
I remember the scepticisim of the Service Overseer at some of the reports of the older sisters! The speculation was that they counted their preperation time, travel time, thinking time... but it never twigged to this naive twit that they probably just made half of it up (some of them bought 20+ mags a months though, so they paid for their sins...)!
If 'd have twigged earlier, I'd have started doing it a lot, lot earlier than I did! It was only the last six or so months for me. It just neve occured to me to do anything but be conservitive with what I counted - dumb ass!!
Max (not so) Divergent
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Survey result: JW views on Homosexuality
by Max Divergent inwere you more liberal that your jw peers?.
a 2001 survey asked for a response to the statement: "i believe homosexuality is immoral".
based on the religion of the respondents, it found that found that 84% of jws responded 'yes', compared to 20% of jews, 30% of 'no religion', and 48% of americans and 36% of australians overall.
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Max Divergent
Hi - Justa quick reply to some of the major points:
1. The stats for other faiths is at the link.
2. Even though the bible read litrally says what it says, many religious people don't take the bible literally and wouldn't conclude that makes homosexuality immoral in the 21st Century, although JW's do. Ture enough, this makes them more complient with the written word that other faiths, but many would argue that formal compliance with the written word dosn't make them more Christian or more moral than people who take a less literal approach to it. 3. Yeah, I guess 16% didn't tow the party line! Could be some polling irregularities in there, but it's still a lot. Thanks for your comments. Cheers, Max of the Divergent class
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Survey result: JW views on Homosexuality
by Max Divergent inwere you more liberal that your jw peers?.
a 2001 survey asked for a response to the statement: "i believe homosexuality is immoral".
based on the religion of the respondents, it found that found that 84% of jws responded 'yes', compared to 20% of jews, 30% of 'no religion', and 48% of americans and 36% of australians overall.
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Max Divergent
Were you more liberal that your JW peers?
A 2001 survey asked for a response to the statement: "I believe homosexuality is immoral". Based on the religion of the respondents, it found that found that 84% of JWs responded 'Yes', compared to 20% of Jews, 30% of 'No religion', and 48% of Americans and 36% of Australians overall. JW and Mormons (83%) had the strongest belief that homosexuality was immoral.
The point is that if you had a more liberal view on that question to 84% of your JW peers, you really didn't fit in as a Witness, and you probably had a whole bunch of other divergent views too. So, it's just as well you're out isn't it!!
Source is the reputable Roy Morgan: http://www.roymorgan.com.au/international/pressreleases/2001/article19.html
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Ozzie's Weekend Poll #13
by ozziepost inyes, it's number 13 in a series of weekend polls designed to brighten your day on a lazy sunday afternoon!
this weekend's poll topic invites us to do some market research!
the question is prompted by the recently published findings of the national church life survey (australia) conducted in 2001. all church attenders were asked their highest educational qualification.
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Max Divergent
I really couldn't remember. Of all the hundreds of JW I knew, I can only think of about two or three with Postgrad quals (ie: <0.5%) - none in my congo. Very few had degrees, the only one in my cong was a teacher who worked as a painter. Many of the men had trade quals, but that varied between congos. To the best of my memory and knowledge, <2% had degrees (ie: less than 2 in each Congo of 100), maybe 30% had trade or other vocational quals, the remainder secondary school only.
While it's a bit churlish to imply that JW are dumb or under-achievers or are predominantly part of lower socio-economic grouping or whatever, it's interesting to note where people are at in the big picture of things. Religion is a big part of people's identity and it's probably legitimate to hypothosise that people's religious identity will be reflected in key indicators of their work, education, political leaning (even neutrals usually have a leaning).
The point is: If you don't fit into the 'mold', you may not fit in to the group.
On that note, a survey qustion I though was interesting I found intersting found little variation between US, NZ and Aust responses to the question: "Obedience and respect for authority are the most important virtues children should learn". Source: http://www.roymorgan.com.au/polls/2001/3414/index.html
While a majority of the general community said 'Yes', demographics that answered overwhelmingly 'YES!!!' (>60%) included those with =< Secondary school education only, people with low incomes and people who voted for conservitive and further right parties (and I can only presume a massive majority of JWs).
Demographics that gave a strong 'NO!' (>60%) had university education, had high incomes and voted for the Greens or other leftish Progressive parties.
I clearly and comfortably fall into the latter demographic (have 1 degree, working on the 2nd; higher than average income (at last!) and member of a progressive party (Australian Democrats). Maybe that's an indicator that I never fitted into the JW's.
In fact it could be said I was Divergent to the Max.
Cheers
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'Nice' news article from Fl
by Max Divergent in.
here's a nice sickly sweet article from fl about the tireless efforts of the local neighbourhood witnessess working for your salvation despite terrible persecution... i really liked the bit where a lady who takes in stray cats and dogs also invited the jw's in!.
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/07/11/floridian/the_other_side_of_the.shtml
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Max Divergent
Here's a nice sickly sweet article from Fl about the tireless efforts of the local neighbourhood Witnessess working for your salvation despite terrible persecution... I really liked the bit where a lady who takes in stray cats and dogs also invited the JW's in!
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/07/11/Floridian/The_other_side_of_the.shtml
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May have to DA
by jaded ini know this is a subject that has been discussed at length on this board.
until now i went along with "not playing their game" and not daing.
now after bill bowen has been disfellowshipped i am feeling embarrassed and ashamed to ever have been associated with this unloving, hypocritical, corrupt organization.
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Max Divergent
I decided that I decide my religious identity, not some administrative process set by the JW for their own purposes. I took a pragmatice view that DA/DF would be inconvenient for weddings, funerals and things, so I've just made a 'heart de-dedication' and have let my actions speak rather than rely on an 'official' JW announcement of the fact that I've nothing whatever to do with them anymore.
But that's just me. You may view it differently. Prisca's comment was amusing, as we doubted more and more, the bedroom certainly became a den of pornia! I think that was somthing that just said to us 'get outta here!' (but never any prayers for forgivness!!!!).
Good luck, Max
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How Pure Are You?
by MrMoe inomg i am like super wicked....
http://test.thespark.com/puritytest/.
you are 29% pure!
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Max Divergent
The dubs taught me well: I'm 77% pure, will have sex with 2 people (both female, but the one to come, I won't love... mmmm), and I'll live to be 88. At 42 (pending some very unlikey events occuring) I'll be a millionaire (ok, so maybe the dubs lessons didn't stick so well... )
Fun stuff.. Max
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Max Divergent
So here lie the fascist mongral dogs...
Marx told us there are two casses of men, the workers and the capitalists; the WTS tells us about the conservitive christian dogma of good men and evil men - a tad of a difference I'd have though...
Progressives see liberation for the worker in the collective efforts of honest hearted men working to the common good up to their ability to provide for everyone according to their need; the conservitives (including the WTS) tell us ultimate prosperity in salvation is a devine reward for individual achivement of moral cleaness and rightness of character, irregardless of the fate of your neighbour so long as you did him no wrongful harm (as opposed to acceptable harm)... umm, JW and Communisim - where's the link???
Funny how the WTS seldom if ever critisises the conservitive far-right christian fruit-cakes with anything like the venom they reserve for the less rightish Catholic Church... Fancy...
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Ozzie's Weekend Poll #12
by ozziepost inwell, how's your weekend going?
here in oz, it's almost over, and it's been a good one.
mrs ozzie's resting on the lounge watching 60 minutes and i'm....well, you know that, eh?
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Max Divergent
My (JW) parents had well over a thousand books of all kinds in addition to a huge collection of JW books going back to Russell and Rutherfords day, so I was kind of brought up with books (Urghh... just found a tick from the dog on my leg... YUK! Squish...). I actually got in trouble from my teacher in Grade 7 for having too many books at school that I was reading simultaniosly!
I probably had around 100 of my own non-JW books while I was active, it was the choice of spending money on books or food or the rent - on part-time pay it was that kind of choice.
Now it's a matter of whether I'll spend my time satisfying my workoholism, sleeping, watching meaningless but restful drivel on TV or reading one of our, say, 300 books (including my work libary) on science, food/cooking, computers, travel, education, novels, a bit of literature, health, a couple on philosophy/religion and other bits and bobs (a 9yo neighbour said a while ago we had a lot of bibles on the shelf for non-believers!!!)
What am I reading now??? One about military special operations and one about Intellegence (spy type) both quite dry academic style that are very interesting and satisfying but are taking me a long time to get through...
In the toilet I've got the Lonley Planets for Thailand and Europe, a picture book about espionage and a Web Design book (the toilet at my parents home had a wall full of book-lined shelves, ran out of space everywhere else!!!)
On my desk now (ie: the things I'm pretending to myself that I might refer to...) are the Macquarie Dictionary (someone used a word to describe a condition they had that enabled them to apparently have intercourse with themselves, and I was intriuged to know what it ment - the word wasn't there, but the root was...); Crisis of Conscience to see what Ray had to say about Don Adams given the post earlier today - nothing; a book about writing essays that I got down to avoid actually having to write the one that was due five weeks ago; Cisco, Database, Systems Admin, HTML, and Office 2000 books that are there to make me think I actually know somthing about any of those things (given I teach about them...), empty beer bottle, overdue bills, passport and the Laws of AFL Football 2001 edition. (And the pile of newspapers in the lounge room is up to a foot now (Mrs Divergent being away).
So... that's my book thing. I'd guess you're wondering if the R&F are well read - I can't say that I remember many who were.
Cheers, Max
Edited by - Max Divergent on 21 July 2002 10:52:10
Edited by - Max Divergent on 21 July 2002 11:5:43